When is it “okay” to switch Churches?
During The Forgotten Virtues series we have looked at some often neglected individual and societal values. And a reoccurring topic seems to be how those ideals affect our involvement (or lack thereof) in our local communities of faith. In week one we were reminded about the forgotten quality of honor. One of three specific groups Craig Groeschel challenged us to honor is pastors and church leaders. Citing 1 Timothy 5:17 he pointed out how Scripture indicates that our preachers and teachers and elders are worthy of special honor. Then this week, while talking about loyalty, he once again challenged us to think seriously about our commitment to our local churches.
But what if we’re feeling the itch to try out a new church? Or what if we’re just feeling the desire to leave the place we have been attending? For some people church hopping is as common as changing hair salons. Others have been members of the same community of worship for years, maybe decades, yet still find themselves considering making a change.
There are countless reasons one might decide it’s time to leave their congregation:
- The worship is not their style
- The doctrine of the leadership is contrary to what they believe
- A new church down the street seems to be more progressive and relevant
- The kids’ program doesn’t fit the family’s needs
- Somebody in the church seriously offended them
- The pastor doesn’t ‘feed them’ enough
- There’s too much emphasis on ________ or not enough on ________.
Is it dishonoring to the elders, and thus disobedient to Paul’s instruction in First Timothy, to stop being a part of a local fellowship? Are we falling into familiar patterns of disloyalty by doing so? When is it ok to move on and when is it important to stay? Is there a proper protocol to follow if switching churches?
We’d love to hear from you on this matter. Are there certain scenarios which you feel warrant an exodus? What are some situations you think a person should stick through, no matter how painful? Personal experiences and testimonials are welcome as well.
What about elders who leave the congregation? It’s a two-way street.
It IS dishonoring to pastors who work hard to feed the flock to have sheep who wander off. It is also dishonoring to shepherds who have sheep that make church life miserable for both the overseer and the body.
Perhaps it’s OK to leave the church but stay IN the Church and certainly DON’T leave JESUS!
I have left my Church for 10 years and since the Lord himself has brought me back in a supranatural natural way (that means that I could not have done it myself!) I do regret the lost time away in erring like in a desert even when I have to recognise that I made some interesting experiences. How good it is to be where the Lord wants you to be! How good it is to live in His Presence every minute of my life!
I get where you are going with this and I think there are many selfish reasons people “leave” the church.
I left a church (denomination) a while back because I didn’t think they were remaining loyal to Christ. This was a hard decision for me and, in many ways, put a target on me with my former church members and friends.
A few years ago I felt like God might be leading me to another body of believers, other than Lifechurch.tv. As I made a list of reasons, most were about how I wasn’t getting what I needed (or my children) – but that list wasn’t the reason. I genuinely felt like I was being called to follow His leading. I followed His lead (while keeping my commitments and relationships at Lifechurch) and He eventually led me back to Lifechurch. It was a great ride and has given me a new heart to reach out to other churches (bands of followers of Christ) and stand arm in arm with them for the Kingdom.
So I think God sometimes calls us to something different and, in some ways, that is the loyalty Craig spoke of last weekend.
I a can only speak to my current circumstances, where there is dis-unity and unhealthy relationships between staff and elders which has bled into the congregation. In addition, there is decisions being made in direct violation of our by-laws and poor stewardship.
I am actually looking for advice because I continue to honor those in leadership and pray for them regularly but have had to watch a church decline from 900 average attendance to 300 in 5 years. Is it possible that our leadership is operating outside of God’s will and if so should we endure to the end?
IBkmdano, I appreciate you posting your specific circumstance here and asking for advice. Without knowing the specifics it’s really hard for any of us to say whether or not your church’s leadership is operating outside of God’s will. It is certainly possible. My two cents, for what its worth is that: 1). even such a drastic decline in attendance may not equate to a leadership being outside of God’s will. There are examples where Jesus’ crowds diminished precisely because He was speaking and living out the will of His father. And 2). even if the decline in attendance is because of leadership being outside of God’s will, perhaps that doesn’t necessarily mean you should leave the church. I certainly can’t say, but I encourage you to really seek God’s will in the matter. In my personal life, there have been times that a local church was going in a direction I didn’t really sense was the right path, yet felt compelled to stay involved and active. On the other hand, I can see times where a change may be in God’s plan (either due to theological or vision differences). Again, being led by Him and doing so in an honoring, non-divisive way may be the key.
A church is a community of believers who you can relate and belong to. With different leaders, pastors and changing visions; it can become easy to feel left out of the community or that your vision doesn’t coincide with the church.
It’s perfectly fine to leave a Church… if you were heavily involved, give ample notice. Don’t leave in a tantrum and point out all the churches faults on your way out. Leave graciously and appreciate the time you spent with the community and the ways it challenged and fed you when you needed it. Move on with the expectation of greater spiritual growth in perhaps a bigger pot now that you have outgrown the previous one.
The issue is when people make mountains into molehills… go from church to church and from problem to problem. The good thing is that these people are the problem, you want them to leave. Another issue is personalities that get a rush out of new relationships and new people, these may switch churches just for the experience of the “New” all over again. Let’s pray they finally find stability and maturity.
I’m really digging the comments from each of you…Lloyd, iamhe, eric. We appreciate you taking time to get involved in the conversation.
I am pretty happy in my church, but my husband is not loving it or growing much and wants to try something new. I am willing for us to look for something that would be better for him and closer to our home. I think we need to try a few places and see if God calls us there or if there is anything that would be truly better than where we are. Of course, if we decided to officially leave, we would meet with our current pastor and just explain our decision so he isn’t hurt because it isn’t his fault. I know others that have talked to him about leaving and he is very good at not taking offense. He holds the congregation loosely, allowing the Lord to do what He needs to do. I think any leader that holds on too tightly is not trusting the Lord enough.
Shawna, thanks for telling us the story of your current situation. It sounds like if you tried to force your husband to stay loyal to your current church and pastor you might actually being showing disloyalty to your spouse. I really like the description you painted of your current pastor & the way he holds onto (or doesn’t) the congregation. I pray that you guys are able to find the best context for you to flourish in your gifts and be the church together with other people…be that in a new setting or in your current local body.
This Post came at the right time for me… I and my wife are living this dilemma right now. We have been attending a church here in Brazil for over 10 years, it was the church where we got baptized and grew in Christ.
In 2008 we got married and moved to a bigger city just about 50 miles away from our home town, our church is present in many cities in Brazil, so we kept attending the same church in this new city, the first year and a half was fine, but about one year ago, we found out that some really bad things about this city church leaders, and got really hurt by them.
We still tried to attend the church during over 6 months, but the situation got unbearable so we started to attend the same church but on a neighbor city, we have to drive about 30 minutes to get there and come back home, but for the past month our car is in the shop, so we started attending a different church (Baptist) in the city we live, and we loved it!
So we are really divided, my father-in-law is a pastor in our hometown church, and he tells us that he will be very dishonored if we start to attend the Baptist church, he wants us to keep driving to the neighbor city church, but we are really inclined to stay in the Baptist church as it is much closer to us, and their teachings and vision are so much more relevant to us, we love the city we live and we fell like God is calling us to stay in the Baptist Church so we can serve him and the city he led us to live.
So as you can see I have no formed option on the subject yet!
Heitor, thanks for sharing your dilemma. I hope that any of us who read it will be compelled to pray for you and your wife. These seas are often very difficult to navigate and it sounds as if you have family dynamics involved as well. I don’t know that any of us can tell you what you should do, as, again, it seems like a matter of being specifically led by Him. I can say that personally I’m much more of believer in local churches and the importance of being tied in, committed and serving with a specific body of Christ…more than to a denomination as a whole or network of churches. For example, if I’m involved in a great local body in my city which happens to be Baptist or Assemblies of God, etc, if I move to another city, I don’t know that I would feel any obligation to find another church in that same denomination. But that’s my personal take. Does anyone else want to respond to that specific issue?
I would just add to what Brian said that we should be kingdom minded and not denomination minded. For so long, I was hung up on being a baptist because that is what I had always been. It isn’t a competition and it should be about reaching people for Christ and teaching them to become fully devoted followers of Christ, not fully devoted baptists, or catholics, or assemblies of God, etc. It’s very liberating.
P.S. we now attend LifeChurch and have started a network LifeChurch in our city.
Rachel, thanks for adding to the conversation. Where have you started your network church? Do you have a web site in case anyone near you would like to check it out?
Sure, we are in Muskogee, OK (LifeChurch Muskogee). Our website is http://www.lifechurchmuskogee.com
Were you & your husband at the same time on the same page? Was he the one who suggested that? Did you guys have a background to support that? I have a passion & I beyond strong desire for this….I would even go as far as feeling called… I’d love to hear more about this.
Missy, who are you asking your question to? Sorry, I’m confused.
Thanks Rachel and Brian;
I know that it is a particular situation we are living, but sure all personal insights and ideas sure help us to see that we are not alone in this dilemma, and that , as Eric said sometimes “people make mountains into molehills” specially people from the church we are leaving. And I agree with the idea that we should be Christ centered and not denomination centered. Thanks for all the prayers, this whole situation is in God’s hands, and I can see him in many ways guiding us.
Heitor, I really respect your heart in the matter. Please keep us posted.
This is a familiar situation to me, as I had a situation very early in my faith journey, and was similar to what iamhe was talking about. I felt that the church wasn’t doing enough to reach people who didn’t know Christ (in fact I came to the church, and faith overall, through the youth group, which was more evangelical than the main church was!), and so I moved to a church where evangelism and outreach for Christ was more of a focus.
Keith, how tragic for adults when the youth in a local body are much more enthusiastic about and active BEING the church. Sound like the local community you’re involved with now, though, has the right focus.
I bet there are others reading this post that find themselves in a similar situation you found yourself in. The challenge is to know when to stay and encourage (and model) change in a local church group, and when it might actually be more honoring to respectfully leave and get involved with a more like minded group of Christ followers.
Wow! Thanks so much for everyone’s insight & honesty. I have to say this is an area that I have been really struggling with. I am so torn. I don’t know what to do. I’d love feedback on this one.
We have attended the same church for the last 7.5 years (basically since we moved here) & in those 7.5 I have been fully engaged. I was even on staff. But in the past few years I’ve been struggling. The vision of the church has changed. About the same time, I started listening & getting involved with LifeChurch where I love the vision & the passion of leading people to be FULLY devoted followers of Christ!! But I long for a local body of believers for my family to be engaged with, to serve with, to live life with. Church online is amazing-it certainly feeds me, but I miss that local body.
But there is a problem. My husband & I are not on the same page….I want to look to see if there is a local body that shares LifeChurch’s vision & passion; where he is content and wants to stick it out. He definitely sees it as disloyal to leave. I am becoming very dishonoring (in my heart especially) It is causing a lot of tension in me & even to some extent in my marriage. I am praying that God would help me to be content, that my husband & I would be unified, that my heart would honor my place of worship.
Recently (just yesterday) I thought do I need to give up LifeChurch?? Is having that which I want always before me, causing me to compare & to lack contentment for where I am at. Like in a marriage if I am unhappy in my marriage the last thing I’d do is spend time with another man who seemed great! I feel like I am the bride of Christ but does that extend to a local church. I don’t want to sever my relationship with the Body just maybe this local body. But my husband who is the spiritual leader is not wanting to change.
As you can tell I am so confused. I want to honor God both in my attitude and my actions. Is it ok to just go through the motions & not be fully engaged locally (it seems like lying to me. But my personality is so all or nothing…wondering what others think.
But above all could you pray for us & this decision…
Missy, I will definitely pray for you in this situation. There was a time several years ago that we were going through an extremely difficult time at the church that my husband was on staff at. Without going into details, I wanted to leave so badly and my husband did too, but did not feel like God was telling us to leave or would release us. We stayed there for 4 years before the timing was finally right for us to leave. This was an extremely difficult time for us and things even got worse in the church during those 4 years, but I knew that my husband was right and that we were where we were supposed to be at that time. It was not easy, but I hate to think what things would have been like if we had ignored God’s direction in our life to stay. This could have been a great source of conflict between us, but it wasn’t. We have to trust God and trust our husbands to seek God’s direction and leading for our families. Again, I know that it is not easy sometimes when we feel very strongly about wanting to do something different, but that is where the trust and loyalty come in. Believe me, I understand where you are coming from. The next church that we served at was also a difficult situation and we were only there 1 year and 3 months. After that we started attending the Tulsa campus of LifeChurch and then started a network church. (Sorry, didn’t mean to write a book!) To sum things up, trust your husband, let him lead and find contentment in where you are.
Missy, it’s obvious that this is a really significant issue in your spiritual life, your marriage, everything. I respect what Rachel said about trusting your husband and letting him lead. I don’t know exactly what that means for you as far as your involvement in LC.tv or not, but her statement resonates with me. I have to believe that as you do this in your heart, God will honor you. The practical challenge you may have, however, is to not allow outward obedience to possibly result in even more internal tension in your relationship with him. I am praying for you.
My experience in churches has been an interesting one. I started out going to a baptist church, which split off into a sister church, so we attended that (my mother and I). It was more of a community church, more open, and relaxed. As a kid, it was more fun for me. After that, my mom got a job at a church, and we went there. It was Lutheran, which seemed stuffy and boring to me. We were members there for a few years. I remember being confused because they taught different things than the Baptist church, and I went to First Communion, but as I had been taking communion, they didn’t want to let me go up with everyone else. We ended up leaving that church due to new policies being passed that we didn’t agree with. We started going to another Lutheran church, but left again. After that, we jumped from church to church, trying to find something that fit our needs…Baptist, Church of God, Lutheran, Catholic, Presbyterian…you name it, I’ve probably been to one of their services. I fell away from the faith when I hit tenth grade, and I’ve been having issues ever since. I’d like to find a church I feel comfortable at, but it’s so hard. I’d like to find a church that reaches out to the community and bases it’s doctrine in the Bible. I wonder if the church jumping actually made it harder for me to settle somewhere?
Kat, do you mind saying where you are (city)? We might be able to suggest some possible church congregations to you in your area that you could visit. If you prefer, you can email me: brianjospehrussell@gmail.com
Since the people ARE the church…I wonder consider Christianity one big church. Therefore, I wouldn’t consider it leaving a church, but leaving a building and going to another one. The mission is still the same, and that’s to Lead people to Christ…or as Craig says, “Lead people to become fully devoted followers of Christ.”
Hey Bradon, I see what you’re saying about someone leaving a small (lower case) “c” church and yet still being a part of the (upper case) Church. But I would add that imo when someone leaves a local body, even though still part of the Church at large, they are certainly walking away from more than just a building. Particularly if they have been a part of that specific community for awhile, their leaving can be very painful (or maybe in some cases, joyful) to the people (i.e. “Church”). Not to say that it shouldn’t ever happen, just that rarely do these decisions happen in a bubble w/out effecting at least a portion of the big “C” Church.
1. If a person can not support or has lost confidence in the leader of the Church that they are called too, and can not resolve it within a period of time they should leave in good grace.
2. If they stay, they will be damaged and, even if their cause is right, they will damage the Church.
3. If this re-occurrs more than a few times then they should look at themselves to see if a spirit of rebellion has entered their hearts.
4. If that is the case they need to recognise it, repent, contact all their broken relationships and ask their forgiveness.
5. If they do not do this, at best, they will die unfullfilled, barren, unhappy and damaged, at worse they are in danger of hell fire.
Thanks for giving some specific scenarios to consider Liverpool.
1. If a person can not support or has lost confidence in the leader of the Church that they are called too, and can not resolve it within a period of time they should leave in good grace.
2. If they stay, they will be damaged and, even if their cause is right, they will damage the Church.
3. If this re-occurrs more than a few times then they should look at themselves to see if a spirit of rebellion has entered their hearts.
4. If that is the case they need to recognise it, repent, contact all their broken relationships and ask their forgiveness.
5. If they do not do this, at best, they will die unfullfilled, barren, unhappy and damaged, at worse they are in danger of hell fire
in our country we have few churches, but many social clubs. the leader of every church should be God,unfortunatly we usually end up with a cult of personality.i believe that when a church goes against the word of God then its time for a change.first confront the problem and try to restore the matter,if it gets to the point where your voice is no longer heard then i think its ok to kick the dirt off your shoes and walk on.however, dont go without telling the church specifically why , they need to understand your reasons.today the biggest reason for church growth is church hopping,i think that reflects a falling away of the church as an institution, not bad members.so many in the church today are hungry for spiritual meat and real growth,but the ministry has become a carrer instead of a calling for many today,the church instead of being a city on the hill,it wants to blend in with the city.as home churches and private groups grow traditional churches are loosing members.we are here to serve God first,follow God ,sometimes that means you fight ,sometimes that means you walk,but it always means you live for the audience of one.
I have left five different churches as an adult for five, completely different reasons. The first came with a move to a different town. Those are no brainers.
The second time, we left a church we had served for seven years. The church had a long history of being difficult on pastors, and we left when the pastor of ten years was railroaded out of the church. I was chairman of the deacon board at the time, but could do little to prevent it. Looking back, I probably could’ve done a few things differently, but what’s done is done. I’m still friends with those I left behind.
The third time, we actually left the church that the previously mentioned pastor had started. I had served on this new church’s elder board for the year and a half we were there. When this church started, we had big dreams of what we envisioned that church to be. Sadly, it fell short of those dreams, and the mission at times got hijacked by people outside of the leadership. Additionally, we had small children at the time, but there was little interest in developing the children’s ministry (at the time it was just us and the kids from one other couple). And, there were many little things that all combined to make it an undesirable place for us. Our decision to leave was the hardest thing we ever did, but we felt it necessary, ultimately because we felt the church had gone off mission.
That led us to another church plant, and the best church we have ever been a part of. We stayed there three years, and then I was called into pastoral ministry. We left, so I could be an associate pastor at another church.
After ordination at this church, we had planned to go out on our own to start a church, but those plans got put off, and we have since returned to the previous church to serve and continue to grow in Christ. We will not be leaving this church unless God moves us to another town, or He brings us back into pastoral ministry.
Kyle, thanks for sharing your journey. There are certainly various reasons for leaving a particular local church body…from moving far away to not liking the choice of carpet color. Your comment reminds us that in looking at the myriad of reasons for making a change, you’re not comparing apples to apples. I really like how you end your comment by saying that any change from your current situation will not happen “unless God moves us”.
About almost 3 years ago my husband and I decided to leave a church we had attended for nearly 9 years. What was the deciding factor in leaving. What wasn’t the issue was the teaching, although controversial. We figured God would straighten the pastor out. Deciding factor was really the church was going in a totally different direction than we were spiritually. It boiled down to Husband and wife needed to agree that Husband was unhappy and needed to admit we were done pretending nothing happened. Re:with their un compassionate extremist stance on pro life and the issue of pregnancy loss We had been heavily involved and nearly removed from serving after having a miscarriage(after years of infertility). After experiencing that and being told we had murdered our baby(even though the baby had died in utero) and that we hated God and told never to tell anyone. That was enough to leave but we stuck that one out even though it was painful to our hearts. But when we were ready we left with no bitterness because the Lord had put our hearts back right with him and and we left with the idea we were leaving friends and we still loved them. and even honored them before we left.
We went to a new place and although the transition was bumpy went amazing.
We don’t regret the decision and hope that if someone is contemplating changing that they examine their hearts for bitterness and offense and really get to the real reason you want to leave.
Trina, my heart goes out to you and your husband for the pain that you went through at that church. It is hard for me to imagine people who are supposed to be followers of Christ being so cruel, but know from experience that this happens all of the time. I am so glad that you and your husband have not let this incredibly difficult circumstance keep you from serving God. I agree with you and others that have mentioned that it is important to examine our motives for why we are leaving. I will pray for you and your husband.
Trina, wow, just wow. What Rachel said. I give you and your husband much credit for handling the departure from that church context w/ as much grace and honor as you seem to have. If you were truly able to leave that situation with love & honor in your hearts and as friends, then I believe it’s possible in most cases. I for one would like to hear more details about where you said, “the Lord had put our hearts back right with him.” Feel free to share more of those details, as it could be very beneficial to others who have been deeply pained by the Church. Thanks.
I will explain what this means:“the Lord had put our hearts back right with him.”
While having to go through a season of personal and family agony, being told that we had had an abortion, thus committed murder (although in fact we had had an ultrasound where we were able to see our baby who had gone to be with the Lord). We were told not to grieve. My husband and I were in fact grieving…we could not believe that something we had prayed for and loved could somehow go back to the Lord. We both knew there was nothing I could have done to have changed anything or harmed the baby. but somehow in the midst of our sorrow a decision was made while we were sad that we realized our hearts belong to the Lord and no matter what we were still going to worship Him (even when it hurt) (just like the words to Blessed be the name of the Lord). We knew in our hearts that no matter what the humans were telling us about our season, no one could change what we knew about the Lord and his character. We were also never ever going to give up on what God had placed in our hearts concerning our family.
He is Love, He gives us life (every breath). We knew He was with us, holding us he even wept with us, holding our tears and most of all he gave us hope for the future.
Although it was absolutely the hardest thing to stay in that church and be silent about what had happened, we were blessed with another baby. He was born 3-16 His name is Jonathan. His birthday was a special gift and a reminder that God loves us so much he Gave (John 3:16). He’s now 4 years old and the joy of our family and friends.
I honored my husband in giving him the ultimate decision power in when to leave for he is the leader.. It wasn’t perfect…There were bad days. We needed healing after we left but we left as friends and could easily go and visit. Healing came from the Lord. We had another miscarriage after we left but God used that to heal me and to show me more of his grace and his heart. Someday we will see those babies when we get to heaven smiling at me. We’ve since had Daniel who is nearing 2 years old and is a total testimony of redemption.
We hope that someday we will get to heaven and hear about how He used us to heal others in the same situation.
That whole deal could’ve easily made us bitter against God because these people had titles of “pastor”, but God made it so that through that we had more compassion and the ability to pray for others.
If Christ died for ALL, how can I not love what he loved? That’s ultimately a Personal decision.
Trina, what a beautiful and powerful story! Thanks so much for sharing. I think you have challenged us all.
What if you’re “invisible”? was at a meeting today, about a dozen of us, pastor came in, greeted and talked to everyone but me. I’ve heard Joyce Meyer’s talk about being on the Potter’s shelf for a while. but feel like a forgotten tool, not used or needed in 5 years. We had a financial stewardship ministry for several years before that, but now we are not used, financial stewardship is not emphasized and the need is greater. Why?
What?
One question that immediately pops into mind is if you have expressed your hurt/anger with the pastor or other leaders involved? Perhaps you have done this, but I would say that an initial starting point for answers/healing would probably be a candid talk with the person/people you feel slighted from. Again, I have no idea what your course of action has been, but I’ve seen many other similar situations where the hurt person, instead of talking directly to the leader/person involved, expresses their feelings to others. This is easier to do for sure. But probably 100% of the time this does not help the situation.
Anyone have any thoughts?
Paul, I would agree with Brian that if you haven’t talked with the pastor about this yet it is something you definitely need to do. So many times feelings are hurt unintentionally as I hope the case is here. There have been a couple of instances in my own life where I offended someone, didn’t know I had, and that person went months without ever coming to me about it and I finally figured something was up when they wouldn’t look me in the eye anymore and I went to them asking them what was wrong. What I did was not intentional-I had no idea I had even done anything, but it could have quickly been resolved if that person had come to me sooner rather than later. This is something that I believe is very Biblical and each of us should practice. Don’t wait for that person to come to you-you should go to them.
As a pastor’s wife, I have also experienced people who get offended if the pastor doesn’t shake their hand or say hello to them every Sunday. Please hear my heart on this: I pray that you are not someone who gets offended easily by not getting the pastor’s attention. I do not know the situation and my guess is that there may be more to this story than what you have shared and maybe multiple instances where you are sensing that something is not right in your relationship with the pastor. My thoughts are to go to him and discuss this-immediately! One of two things will happen: 1-you will find out that nothing is being done intentionally and its just a misunderstanding or 2-there is a problem and you all can honor Christ by working through it as brothers in Christ.
Hope this helps, and I will definitely be praying for you.
I have just started coming to lifechurch, and I’m excited about this new medium to reach people where they are, God Bless you in this wonderful work….
On this topic I have come into a situation where a person (who knew my husband in his “before Christ” days) has become…well…how can you put it hard to deal with. We decided to help them become more acquainted with our church not thinking they would actually become members. Then to make matters more uncomfortable, this person started to approach my husband about matters of the past. When confronted about issues involving the relationship or their behavior, they become like a wolf in sheep’s clothing and respond by sending mean-spirited text and voice messages and also emails. It was the emails that made us decide that this was beyond our abilities to redeem. Ultimately it will be the Lord who will (I pray) help them, but their behavior was so inappropriate, we broke all ties. Meanwhile they still show up at our church, so we avoid them at every turn. This has greatly reduced our freedom in the church to show up when they do, but it has kept us from returning to the subject every time we see them. I am considering on leaving the congregation because of this, but we still are involved even if it’s not nearly as much as before.
Maure, this sounds like a tough situation. I would suggest first confronting the couple directly (face to face) and explaining how you feel. It sounds as though maybe you’ve done this, however. Is it on the heals of these talks that you get the nasty texts? If so, I would encourage you to talk to one of the pastors on staff at your campus and see if you, along with the other couple could maybe meet together with them. To me the best case scenario would be that healing happens and both you and the other couple can continue to worship/grow together at this local body. That may not be possible in the end, but I would try my best to see this happen.
Again, though, not knowing the specific ins & outs, it’s hard to offer specific advice. I hope this is helpful. Anyone else want to try to help maure out?
I would agree with Brian to sit down with your campus pastor and the other party involved. I would also provide any proof that you have (texts, emails, voice messages) to the pastor of what has been happening. From what I have seen, LifeChurch staff handle these kind of situations from a very Biblical standpoint and aren’t afraid to confront in love.
I am sorry that you are having to deal with this issue when you are trying serve and do what is right. Is there a different time that you could attend where you wouldn’t run into these people? I will pray for the best for both you and everyone involved.
Thanks Brian and Rachael,
Yes I have talked about this with two of the pastors. Unfortunately the pastor that was more in touch with the situation has stepped down (now involved as a congregant) due to serious health issues. The other pastor is the senior pastor, who because of his myriad of duties I only would expect to advise me in the matter. So it is at a stand still now. The one thing we are doing is not getting involved in any unwholesome argument with the other party. The emails contained a lot of drama that seemed to be separate from any issues at hand. I felt as though it was meant to stir up anger or at least create an impact in a negative way.
I am weary of this relationship ending up in the same cycle of emotional and verbal abuse that has occurred in the past. Right now we are going to a different service to avoid contact.
Thanks again for your responses, and the opportunity to “vent”! –maure
My family has attended the same church since my husband was a young adult. Our children have grown up at this church, and we have served, grown, learned and loved continually. Even though many areas of our lives have grown and sown into our family church, we did experience a season of change….a hunger for “deeper” ground with the Lord that we couldn’t seem to quench. Being deeply involved in church leadership, we sought out counsel and prayer with our Pastor, He too sensed the Spirit moving, and encouraged us to embrace the desire, seeking God in it all —we were not hasty, but eventually took steps to honor this leading….it led us to Lifechurch. We still don’t see ourselves as “switching” churches,as that was never our intent, but there is also no denying that the Word of God speaks so clearly and timely to us, each of us, with such a simple freshness everytime— so many things in the nautral setting are very different from what we are accustomed to, so we know our flesh was not leading, but every time, God, speaking plainly and effectively into our lives—that gives us such a joy, peace, and assurance that all other reasoning just cannot compete. We still stay in touch with our church “family” as our lives continue, and thankfully, most of those relationships have not deminished, but in fact deepened. I can’t explain it, but the beauty is, I don’t feel the need for an explanation, or even all the answers – His peace is sufficient – God is abundant. So to me, if His peace leads, regardless of the circumstances, He’ll make a way & you’ll KNOW it. To me, that’s always a good time to be led anywhere, that’s faith, that is LIFE.
Rebecca, thanks for sharing your personal journey. Yours sounds like perhaps a textbook example of how to become part of a new community of faith, while still honoring the leadership in the previous body. To me it says a lot that you’re able to say about your friends in that former church, “most of those relationships have not deminished, but in fact deepened.” That’s really great.
I would have been considered a church-hopper at one time in my life and that used to embarrass me, but I really believe God wanted me to keep looking for a GREAT church, not just a good one. Today my church celebrated its 125th anniversary, and I’m so glad I found it 22 years ago. I’m also glad I found Church Online a few months ago! Both churches are a great blessing in my life!
That’s so cool Kathy. I hope that gives hope to those reading who maybe still haven’t settled into a local church.
A church needs to be three things in order to be a “church”:
1. Bible believing, preaching and teaching according to the Word of God (from a Bible that does not include books like I and II Hesitations, I and II Fornications) ; )
2. A church celebrates the two sacraments/ordinances: baptism and communion
3. A church exercises church discipline
The body of Christ IS the church. So many institutions claim to be the body of Christ but really aren’t. If you are lacking any one of these requirements, you might be a bible study, a life group, heck – you may even be in a cult, but you’re not the church.
As you stated above, and you make a great point, so many individuals leave because they aren’t “comfortable.”
We are called to obey our leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over us as men who must give account. We are to obey them so their work is a JOY (Hebrews 13:17). How obedient are you? (If you don’t say “Amen”, say “Ouch”.) Church leaders are to be honored and esteemed (1 Thessalonians 5:12-13). We are to give double honor to those who preach. Believers need each other for the body to function as God planned (Romans 12:4-6). Did you catch that? If one of us is lacking, we all are (1 Corinthians 12:21, 26; 12:12-18). Attending weekly corporate worship with other believers IN PERSON is so important (Hebrews 10:24-25). Receiving instruction from gifted individuals within the body is essential for personal growth (Ephesians 4:11-13; Colossians 1:9-10, 28; 3:16). We are to encourage one another. How encouraging are we if we don’t show up? (John 13:34-35; Galatians 6:2; 1 Thessalonians 5:11,15; Ephesians 4:2, 32; Romans 12:10, 15:7; Hebrews 3:13; James 5:16.
When is reproof comfortable? (Hebrews 13:17) When is listening to the sermon and being convicted by the Holy Spirit comfortable? (2 Timothy 3:16) It usually isn’t, yet we REJOICE (Philippians 4) because the Lord is sanctifying us (Romans 8:28). Thank God that Christ loves us and did not turn his back on us… and let us keep in mind, not everyone that attends a service knows the Lord – non-believers, and false prophets. We are to be a beautiful reflection of Christ and magnify Him. Are we magnifying Him or are we magnifying ourselves? Something to think about.
To God be the Glory!
Grace, I really like the point you make about how an individual’s absence can really affect the other “members”…how can we be an encouragement if we’re not present? And while I’m a believer in someone being involved in an ‘in person’ church community, I’ve also seen/felt this absence even in online communities.
Brian, what would I do without uber fly guys like you? : ) Thank you for the kind reproof. I should have clarified the difference between watching something like lifechurchTV on occasion as opposed to something like being a hermit and believing you are a part of a “church” because you watch TBN or Catholic Mass religiously. I am a big fan of Mars Hill Church Seattle / Mark Driscoll, however I watch him IN ADDITION TO attending church weekly. Thank you for clarifying that for me. You rock brudda. : )
Ha, Grace you flatter me. Not a reproof by any means, just an observation
In my late 20′s, I left a church because I was deeply offended by someone. It was right after I became a Christian and was baptized. I should have known it was a test at the time, but being a new Christian I didn’t know about such things. That incident kept me out of church for 20+ years and took me down a road that has been very difficult and dark. I repented a few years ago, and will not make this mistake again. It is life destroying and regretful beyond imagination. Find a pastor that speaks directly to you and the rest you can deal with – this is the most important thing. There will be other things in EVERY church (just like every relationship/marriage) that has to be worked on. But many times, the allows these things into our lives to show us what WE need to work on. I needed to work on a spirit of offense and I’ve learned a valuable, expensive, time-wasting lesson, but I did eventually learn it.
What a great reminder Monica. Thanks for being transparent and touching on such an important aspect in this whole discussion.
What timing this post is. This is something my husband and I have been struggling with. Both feeling complacent in the church, not really growing in our faith and knowledge. But, knowing that church isn’t about us and what we get out of it, we have been sticking it out.
But, there is a shift in the church where major undertakings have not been handled in a positive manner (meaning very selfishly and degrading), and the attitude of church leadership has become the same, where we are being told “if you don’t like it, leave, we don’t need you here”, lack of organization, etc. There has been removal of one of our most seeker reaching services to mold it to be the same as all of the other services, thus leaving out a huge demographic of seekers.
We are both very involved in the church, serving in many areas and friends with much of the staff.
We’ve both been bathing it in prayer and feel a distinct call that God has other plans for us, plans that require us to leave the four walls of our church and invest more time in our community and into a church that does the same.
In doing all of this, we feel we are still honoring our pastors, knowing that God is telling us to do this and that it is not for the selfish reasons (I don’t like the serivce, I’m not getting enough from the sermons, the music is bad), but more importantly we are obeying God.
Jaime, sounds like your local church has gone through some really painful things. I love that through it all and in the process of looking to get involved in another community you are able to say, “In doing all of this, we feel we are still honoring our pastors, knowing that God is telling us to do this and that…we are obeying God.”
Me and my family started attending a lovely little church in our neighbourhood here in Brisbane where the worship was amazing, the preaching relevant and the atmosphere really true to how people wanted to worship God….I just LOVE music, so I was in a heavenly place…so I thought… However, as time progressed, and I became more and more involved, I learned that the pastor really had no relationship skills other than dictate how and when things should happen, poorly communicate, not pray and seek God’s leading hand on important decisions, and his personal relations left much to be desired to sometimes. It was all about how good and wonderful he is, and later on more and more people started leaving the church. I was honoust with him on my decisions and the reasons for my decision to leave (I was also elected to the Board of Administration, preached in some services and was part of the worship team), so it was a hard decision, and most of our friends are either still there or have also left for other churches. However, the very first evening service in our new church, we watched Lifechurch tv, and my life just changed. I accepted what happened in the previous church, started praying for that pastor, even attended services there and just caught up with friends there regularly. I have learnt that it’s first about your relationship with God, and once you have established that relationship, God will lead you to where He wants you to be. How do you know if it’s the right church for you….well, the Bible should be your compass, and should be studied as a complete unit, not just little verses here and there that motivates the preaching, but focusing on God’s EVERY word for us….have faith
How about being a staff member and being fired because your wife started a home based business teaching women how to cook, decorate and just manage a household on a budget.
I was accused of starting a ministry under his (the sr pastor) nose and stabbing him int he back. He called me on the phone on a Sunday afternoon, and fired me. No discussion. My wife would have shut down her business if they had asked her to, but did not.
Then it got worse. He preached from the pulpit against me. Not by name. But everybody new he was talking about me and my family.
Then it got even worse. He sent a registered letter accusing us things my wife said in a private conversation overheard by another church member that completely took the conversation out of context. My wife was relaying what my daughter told us to her youth minister! Unbelievable.
We believe that my wife exposed the fact that there was NO woman’s ministry at “our” church and the only way he could deal with it was to kill the messenger.
I had to leave.
Wow Mark. Very tough situation. I would just say for you and your wife to be very careful not to be bitter towards this man. I know that is easier said than done, but I am speaking as a pastor’s wife who has experienced pure meanness from church members towards my husband at our former church. We know the feelings of hurt and betrayal that are part of these situations. I can say that if this hadn’t happened to us that we would not be where we are today serving in a network LifeChurch. I could finally understand why some people want nothing to do with the church. It was also affecting our teenage kids at the time that overheard several of the members talking badly about their dad. As a result of the awful experience we had at that church after my husband resigned, we began going to LifeChurch. Serving God was never a question, but being in church leadership was something that took some time for healing before we were ready again. God had been working in our hearts before he resigned about going in a different direction (most of the church members had no interest in reaching the lost) where we wanted to serve our community and reach people that no one was reaching and He placed us right where we were supposed to be. I can honestly say that I have no ill feelings towards any of the people at that church. I know that bitterness and anger only ruin my life and those around me-again speaking from past experience. I encourage you and your wife to please not let bitterness take root in your soul for it will destroy you. God knows your pain and anger and He has great plans for you.
Remember Joseph and all he went through to become second in command of Egypt.
If my husband and I can be of any assistance to you and your wife please contact us at eallen@lifechurchmuskogee.com
Mark, wow, as Rachel sort of warned about, I can only imagine the temptation to harbor bitterness and anger is great. Heck, I started feeling resentment toward your former Sr. Pastor even though I have never met him nor have been personally hurt by him. Yet, I would echo Rachel’s caution. Though based on your description of events it is completely understandable why you and your family would hold bitterness, for your sakes I hope that you are able to truly be free of it. Perhaps you are. Perhaps you’re somewhere on the journey of finding release. Wherever you find yourself on that path I hope that you keep your eyes & hearts fixed on arriving/staying there. Easy to say, I know, but any lingering resentment would only hold you back. Blessings to your whole family and may you soon find a loving, God seeking community to become involved with.
All of these comments and I have yet to read what the bible says about it. Should I change churches, etc. I KNOW there is scripture reference that goes against jumping from church to church. I dont know which one… time to go study !
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Mr.Brian,
My family is seriously thinking of changing the congregation where we have been going for the past 11 years.I have served in the children ministry for 8 years and my husband as the church administrator for the past one year.It is through this that we came to know that the church we are attending is not a Church but an organization full of politics and a money bank for the authority.The Church school is nothing but a cultural organization to entertain the congregation and the burden for the souls is nowhere .If we have difference of opinions the weak are forced to go and reconcile with the strong,even if they are wrong.We are in noway being spiritually blessed though the number of our church increased in quantity but decreased day by day in its quality.unfortunately we don’t have the heart to go to the other churches also lest we face the same and we don’t want to keep on switching the churches,we want a place were we can get rooted and be fruitful.Kindly advise